Q&A: Joe Cordina

Joe Cordina lost for the first time as a professional – and therefore the IBF super-featherweight title he won, reclaimed after being stripped, and then defended – when in May, on the undercard of Tyson Fury-Oleksandr Usyk, he was unexpectedly stopped by Anthony Cacace.

He is preparing to return at lightweight before the end of 2024, and plans to then pursue a world-title fight at 135lbs. He also granted BoxingScene his first post-fight interview.

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How do you reflect on your fight with Anthony Cacace?

I haven’t watched it back – I’ll be honest – I know what happened. The first couple of rounds I was comfortable. I felt like it was going to be an easy night’s work. That’s the way it was playing out. I did see Frank Warren said he dominated from the start. That wasn’t the case. It was pretty easy for me, and everyone who’s watched it back said it was pretty easy for me for the first couple of rounds. If it wasn’t for that shot on the break it would have continued to be in my favour and it would have carried on and the momentum would have still been with me. But the standout thing in the fight was the two shots on the break – that shook me to my boots, frankly, and then the momentum switched. But it is what it is. I’m not going to cry over spilt milk – that’s why I haven’t really done interviews or come out and said this, that and the other. But that was the deciding factor of why it ended up the way it did.

BoxingScene was going to ask about the punch on the break…

When the ref [Bob Williams] comes into the changing rooms beforehand, in big fights the referee comes in and says, “I’m the man in charge of the ring; obey my instructions; obey my commands; if I say, ‘Break’, break; if I say, ‘Step back’, step back. If you don’t follow instructions you’ll be penalised; points; potentially disqualification.

I ain’t going to cry over spilt milk. The ref said, “Break; clear”. A split-second after, he hit me with two clean shots. If that was me, and I hit him, I’d have been expecting points off. It was incompetence from the referee. He didn’t do anything. He didn’t tell him to go back to a neutral corner. He was right behind the referee after, and I just think it was a bit unfair. That’s just incompetence and bad refereeing. It was just bad refereeing. I think because of the occasion of the night – the whole night; I’m not saying my fight, because there was bigger fights on there than mine and Cacace’s – obviously he’s been involved in big fights. But the whole occasion – I didn’t think he wanted to take points off. It was really bad, and that’s what should have happened – and give me my five minutes.

Your trainer Tony Sims said you’d been struggling to remain at super featherweight…

It’s affected me for the last three fights. I probably should have went up two or three fights ago. But I just went ‘till the wheels went off, basically. I told Tony I was going to go up after my last one, in Monte Carlo [a majority decision victory over Edward Vazquez in November 2023], and [my team] wanted me to stay at that weight for one more fight – maybe two. “The difference, you carrying a world title and not carrying a world title – it can be massive.” We just went until the wheels fell off, basically. Unfortunately it happened that night.

That wasn’t the worst I’ve made it. Monte Carlo was the worst. It was tough – I’m not gonna lie – it was tough. But I made it. I didn’t struggle as bad as I have before. I give myself enough room to make the weight this time around.

How heavy handed is Cacace?

I was expecting more. If I hurt him the way he hurt me, on the break, he might have got through the round, but he definitely wouldn’t have made it through the next round. Every shot after them two shots on the break – everything he was catching me with, he was buzzing me. It’s not because of his power – sometimes even jabs were buzzing me. He’s strong, don’t get me wrong, he’s strong. But I was expecting more, the way everyone was going on. [Shavkatdzhon] Rakhimov is probably the hardest puncher I’ve been in with. I was expecting a little bit more, but he is strong. I’m not gonna discredit his power, because he’s the way he is, and he’s a world champion.

How good is he, overall?

It’s hard to say, because the first two rounds felt really comfortable, and I didn’t really get out of first gear. Then, after the two shots on the break, he’s fighting a 50 per cent Joe Cordina. I can only gauge that. He is good – he’s a world champion for a reason.

How much did it hurt to lose your title?

It hurt – especially the way I did. If I’d lost to someone way better than me, I’d hold my hands up and say, “He’s better than me”. He was better than me on the night, and he got the win on the night – that’s all there is to say about it, really. But the way it happened wasn’t how I planned. I believe if he didn’t throw them two shots, and it didn’t affect me the way it did – I’ve never experienced that before. It was inexperience – I just wanted to get back in there and fight, where I should have used my head and took a knee or took my five minutes or made a fuss about it. It’s quite sickening, really, to think about it.

It sounds like it’s been on your mind a lot?

The way it happened, it’s been on my mind, because it was out of my hands, really. If you’d seen the [first] two rounds, you’d know that they were pretty comfortable, and they went in my favour. If it would have carried on – but like the saying is, “If my Auntie had a dick she’d be my uncle” – if I didn’t get caught with the two shots, the momentum would have carried on being in my favour. As fights go on, I gain in confidence; I build, and that’s the way it would have been.

Joe Calzaghe’s very supportive of you. Have you spoken to him since?

He sent me messages – a lot of people sent me messages. To be honest, a lot of them I didn’t open. I stayed away from my phone for quite a bit. The people that come to my fights and message me on wins and stuff like that, I was messaging them back. But certain people were messaging me after I lost, and they don’t praise me when I win – they don’t come to my fights – and it just felt like they were happy to see me lose. It could just be me, and it playing on my mind. I just tried to stay away from all the messages, because the way I was looking at it, maybe the whole occasion was clouding my judgement on certain people. I just tried to stay away from it.

It’s sickening, isn’t it, because nowadays there’s so many double-headers you can’t really see who’s who, because they disguise it so well. It happens in every walk of life, not just in boxing. You hear loads of stories. I just try and keep my small circle.

Have you spoke to Matchroom about what’s next?

No one’s really contacted me, from Matchroom. I’ve been training – doing little bits, and whatever. But I’m going to get back in the gym [properly] and start training in September. I want to be out in late November; December, and I’m hoping on that. When I get back from [my family holiday in] Malta, I’ll start pushing for what I basically want. I’m back in two weeks, so I’ll start the ball rolling with negotiations or trying to make a fight or whatever.

I just don’t want to be involved in them fights that are high-risk, low-reward. I don’t want them fights. There’s a lot of fighters out there – people don’t really like saying this – there’s fighters out there that are unbelievable but they haven’t got the recognition. They haven’t got the backing behind them, so you’re fighting them, it’s a potential slip up, and you’re not getting nothing from it. Nothing at all. You’re not getting paid well; you’re not getting no credit from it, so where does that put you? I’d back myself against anyone in the world. When you’re fighting someone like that, for no clout – no money – then it’s not worth your while.

You’ve got George Kambosos who’s fought [twice Devin Haney, then Vasiliy Lomachenko] for world titles and lost every single one of them. What difference is it from me? I know he can fight in Australia. But I can fight in Cardiff; in the UK. Or we can be on the undercard of someone. So why can’t that happen with me? Eddie’s meant to be the biggest promoter in the world, so if anyone can sort it, he can sort it. 

I’m just gonna enjoy my summer, and then I’m gonna pick back up. I’ve got ambition. I still wanna win world titles. I just need another fight to put me back in the firing line for another world title. Anyone that can put me in for a world title [I’m willing to fight].

Did it hurt seeing Cacace-Josh Warrington announced for Wembley Stadium on September 21?

Yeah, because after the fight, Cacace said he’d give me a rematch. Then the next thing I know – no one had even mentioned anything to me – that’s the only fight that I would have stayed at 130lbs for, to try and make that fight.

It was after. He come in my changing room, and at the time my head was all over the place, so I said, “It’ll probably have to be at 135lbs, because I don’t know if make the weight anymore”. He said, “But there’s no belt”. I said, “To be honest, I don’t give a fuck about the belt – I just want to wrong a right”. Then, obviously, that fight was done. So it is what it is – I don’t cry over spilt milk. They’re fighting – that’s another six months gone. The longer I wait for something like that, the more weight I’m gonna be able to fill out and put on, so it’s going to be tougher for me to make that weight.

How good a fight is it?

I think it’ll make for a good fight. I don’t know how much Warrington’s got left, but it’ll be a good fight, because Warrington always brings it, doesn’t he?

I’ve got to back Cacace, because he beat me, and to be honest, I’d wipe the floor with Warrington. I’d have to back Cacace.

You’ve previously appeared on course to fight Shakur Stevenson. What did you make of the criticism of his performance in his recent victory over Artem Harutyunyan?

It’s mad, because I see loads of people giving him stick. But if you love the art of boxing, you can’t knock it. How can you knock that? He hits and don’t get hit. He’s smart; he’s one of the best defensive fighters there is right now, so I don’t understand what they’re saying. Don’t get me wrong – it’s one of them things. If you’re winning a fight so easy, which he normally does, every fight that’s easy, people wanna see you step on it and go through the gears. That’s what the likes of Gervonta Davis; Terence Crawford; [Saul] ’Canelo’ Alvarez – the pay-per-view stars – do. If they were winning fights so easy, they’d potentially get him out of there in the next few rounds. But when it comes to boxing abilities, he’s up there with the best. I genuinely don’t get it. I can’t say “armchair fans” – it’s not armchair fans. It’s people that just don’t see the art of boxing. All they want to see is knockouts.

The WBC have ordered purse bids for a fight between he and William Zepeda…

That’s an unbelievable fight, because Zepeda – I believe – will give any one of them fighters at the top level at 135lbs big problems. He can punch; he’s tough; he can fight; he can box; he can do it all. His punch power is on another level, and his relentlessness with it. You’ve got Gervonta Davis – his punching power’s not on this planet, because he’s wiping people out. The size of him as well. He fights in little bursts, and he throws them big shots in bursts. Zepeda’s going through gears with power. That’s an unbelievable fight for boxing, and just being a boxing fan, I was hoping that fight would get made. You’d have to say Shakur [is the early favourite] but, genuinely, you wouldn’t be surprised if Zepeda pulled it off, just by outworking him; landing the bigger, heavier shots. Americans score on aggression; work-rate; big shots, and that could be a factor in that fight, because he’d put Shakur under pressure. But there’s another side to the coin – if you put him under pressure and starting winging in, trying to throw 100 shots and there’s no thought behind them, Shakur will pick holes in it. When he starts getting tired, is he gonna wanna keep flying in? You’d have to pick Shakur as a favourite, but it wouldn’t surprise.

Would you still like to fight Stevenson?

Yeah, I’d love to fight Shakur. I remember he called me out after I won my first world title, and I was like, “Let’s go”. I had a break, and then he lined up to fight someone else; I thought we was having it. Then he didn’t make the weight and he moved up to lightweight. So, yeah, I’d love to revisit that fight, and get things going. I’d love to.

What’s it like having John Ryder, once your fellow fighter, return to your gym as a trainer?

He’s always been an influence. As a fighter – he’s someone I’d always look up to, because he’s been at the highest level. As I have, but in the sense of he’s done it for a lot longer than me, so how can I not watch someone and look up to someone who’s like that? The same with Ricky Burns. I know most of what I know now from Ricky Burns – just from watching him and being around him. We used to live together. I watch, or you show me – I’m like a sponge. Show me something that’s going to potentially make me better and I’m like a sponge – I’ll take it all in. 

But he’s a massive influence. It’s early for him. He only retired a few months ago. Time will tell.