In June, the cut and bloodied Sunny Edwards returned from the occasion of his first defeat by beating Adrian Curiel. He then sat down to watch Jesse “Bam” Rodriguez, who inflicted that defeat, impress in victory over Juan Francisco Estrada. In September he will again be ringside when his brother Charlie fights Thomas Essomba, who he manages, and in November he hopes to fight his leading domestic Galal Yafai.
He discussed all, in an extensive Q&A.
BoxingScene: How is the cut healing?
The scar’s a great addition to my face. It plays more into the “bad guy” vibe I’ve been trying to go for.
Looking at November [for a return to the ring].
BS: How do you reflect on your performance?
I boxed well. I listened to the instructions that I was given by my corner team; management team and family and everyone. “Get back to the boxing.” I was a bit frustrated at the timing of the fight being halted. I’m used to fights going 12 rounds, and for it to be stopped prematurely, not for a satisfying reason, I was visibly agitated at that. It’s just a bit disappointing that on a massive stage, in front of a lot of fans – more than I’d ever boxed in front of before – I didn’t really get to see the fight through the way I wanted to do. But I felt like I won every round; I was comfortable there; he wasn’t really making me get out of second gear.
I know Matchroom cut out loads of scenes from the media build-up, because my message was very clear. “A year ago, you all told me he wasn’t good enough to fight me in London; now I’m fighting him. He wasn’t a dangerous fight a year ago, so why is he now?” I knew I was going to beat him, and I proved it. Now on to, hopefully, bigger and better things.
The moment I got back, had my people around me, had some food in me, was watching the fight – I never give myself credit while I’m in there; I have to watch it back to see how good I done – it felt like getting subbed off at half-time. It felt premature – not in a good way. I don’t really dwell on things. I’ve got dreams and ambitions further away – past this – so it was a bit bittersweet, I guess.
BS: Your former opponent Jesse “Bam” Rodriguez was praised after defeating Juan Francisco Estrada that same night. How good is he?
After my last fight, where I got a massive gash in my head, I ran to get stitches, put on my clothes, and come and sit ringside to try and support “Bam”, actually. I respect him massively for being able to do something that no one else has been able to do to me over 12 rounds in a boxing ring. This sport is what I love; I love competing; I love fighting. The feeling I’m addicted to is that moment where I get caught with a shot and that adrenaline spikes all the way up. That’s the feeling I chase. I don’t chase fame. I don’t chase legacy, really. I don’t chase all the other things that other people really do it for. They’re all by-products of success, and I’m ready to receive them and go forward with that. However, the feeling I chase is that of getting involved in a fight, where it centres me so that the only thing that matters is that fight; that adrenaline spike I get.
That chase – that needing to get back in the ring – doesn’t allow me to dwell on the past, or even care that it’s not all in my way. I’m a very good fighter – I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I haven’t really done anything much else. I’ve probably sparred as many or more rounds than any active pro; I love fighting. Just because one night it’s not mine – just because I speak so confidently – I am who I am, and what will be, will be. I will accept the good and take the bad and keep moving forward. I promised myself when I quit boxing and found it again seven months later that this is the only thing for me, because I’ve realised that without getting into the ring and feeling that range of emotions that I crave, I was finding myself finding it outside of a boxing gym for the first time in my life. It’s built in me, and I needed it, and I still need it, and I probably will until the end of my career. Genuinely, I love boxing, I love fighting, so much that regardless of who I’m getting in against or how stacked it is against me, the only thing I genuinely chase is an actual challenge. I will still be doing the same thing and looking for that challenge.
Everyone knows the fight they’re trying to make. Former opponent, Olympic gold medallist, Galal Yafai, and after that it looks like the only really logical explanation would be the winner of Kenshiro Teraji versus Cristopher Rosales. That looks like my two next fights, and I’d be happy to. After coming off a loss against the best fighter in the division – top five, pound for pound – going against a former world champion in Curiel, then Olympic gold medallist in Galal, then it’s a world champion in Rosales or Teraji. I just want the challenges. I don’t need a perfect record or for everyone to think I’m good at boxing. I just need to find a ring to go and fight in.
BS: In the build-up to fighting Curiel how much was your confidence affected by that first defeat?
If anything, my experience was getting caught with a shot, a lead hand, and it breaking my face and doubling my vision, and it was blurry and it was moving and there was two of them. That’s my perception of what happened. I then stood there toe to toe, and went punch for punch. Maybe I was getting outworked; outscored; out-powered; out-everything. But I probably get more belief from the fact that I could barely see and barely see the range, and I’m standing there against one of the best in the division, and we were going blow for blow – and it weren’t the fight that got to me at the end in the ring, and the reason why the fight was stopped. It wasn’t even the knockdown. It was the accumulative damage that had been done to my face since the second round. My trainer wanted to stop it a round earlier; I wouldn’t let him. My, “Go and do something this round”, was about two-and-a-half minutes of better than the last nine minutes, then getting hit with probably the biggest shot of my career. Now it was time, and I accepted Grant’s [Smith, my trainer] decision, and we live to fight another day. But at no point did I feel completely outmatched. At no point do I feel like we couldn’t go through all that again and I wouldn’t feel just as confident of winning. If anything, I feel like if my eye don’t go in the second round, I’m definitely gonna win. In my opinion I won three of the first four rounds on two of the scorecards. I feel like I was in a good state, even with the damaged face. It just became very, very, very hard to keep my focus mentally against someone physically and mentally so good in Bam, and I’ll give him all that props. I’ll keep chasing his tail, and he’s setting the pace right now at these weights, and that’s what I need. I need people in front of me to chase down; that motivate me; that make me up my game. I’m on it. My mind’s switched. If anything that loss has given me that, more than taken anything away from me.
BS: He’s been spoken of as the biggest threat to Naoya Inoue…
I definitely think he’s one of the best fighters in the world – as I do myself. That’s why the fight was so good. Naoya Inoue is an absolute monster, but it’s a fight I’d love to see. When you’re dealing with this level of fighters, you’re dealing with a group of fighters rather than a one, two, three, four, five. When you have that much physical ability and understanding of a boxing ring – he has the chance to be one of the ones that challenges Naoya Inoue. Would I heavily favour him? Probably not. Inoue is one of the most phenomenal fighters there’s ever been.
BS: What’s next for you?
They’ve mentioned November; they’ve mentioned one place where they want it. We haven’t got to the nitty gritty of the getting things over the line just yet – I’m not sure what the holdup is; hopefully sooner rather than later… – [but] he’s the only name that has been mentioned to me. Which is fine by me. The way my mind’s been is I beat him in the amateurs; because of old friends and older brothers and relationships, and maybe geographical reasons… I got on [Team] GB the weekend after Galal did. I beat him that year to get there. In that time of us training on the same squad together I felt very comfortable in sparring, and I can remember some of the things that some of the coaches said during those sparring sessions. After my four months on the squad I made a very quick and obvious observation of what was going on around me. A fighter that I had beat no less than six months ago had been sent to five different tournaments, WSB internationals – five – while I was waiting for my first trip out of the blocks. From that moment I felt like the system was against me. “Another place where my face don’t fit.” It happened on England as well. But winning the ABAs, and in my opinion dancing on everyone in sparring, I thought would be enough to [overcome] those forces against me.
Eight years later that same coach [Rob McCracken] is working with that same fighter that I got pushed aside for. Even though Galal’s a friend of mine, and I do actually like him, the moment he turned over, the message from me has been simple. “Whenever they’re ready for the fight, they’ll get it, because that’s my Olympic gold medal on his head.” That I should have had and never got the opportunity, because my face didn’t fit.
It’s like a rival. You grow up in sport – you can still like someone, but their career bothers you. I think he’s cool. He’s sound. I’ve got no problem with Galal the person. [But] Galal’s career has rubbed me up the wrong way for a fucking long time. A very, very long time.
I like Rob as well. Rob’s cool. But it doesn’t mean I don’t put myself aware of the actual reality that’s going on. I would love at any point for any of their side to come out and start telling me that I’m telling lies at any part of these stories.
Even though I was happy when Galal went on to win an Olympic gold medal – of course I was; he’s going to be bringing all that value to me when he gets in the ring in the future; I was buzzing – so is it personal on them as people? No. I get on with them massively and I like them. However, when I was Sunny Edwards the kid that should have been getting sent to these qualifiers and didn’t, it was very clear that there was a system formed against me.
I’m getting really, really, really frustrated – at no point, so far, in my tenure over the last few years, since the last time I fought there and showed I’m actually a draw in Sheffield, has the conversation ever veered here once. It’s almost like I’m getting blocked – blocked from fighting in the city that I wanna fight in. Every single fight I’ve pushed and persisted, and now this one I can’t fathom. One, he don’t sell no tickets in Birmingham – I’ve been at his shows. Two, we both train five minutes away from each other and both sets of brothers – me and Charlie, and him, Kal and Gamal – have all lived, trained and been based in Sheffield for the most part of our adult lives. I’m a much bigger name than him as it stands in British boxing and world boxing. I’m a much bigger draw, and I bring more people to a fight. But why, at no point, are we ever considering my home town? I don’t really know. I’m starting to bang my head against the wall. ‘Cause it’s the only place I wanna fight.
He’s done well and he’s been matched quite hard, really. He didn’t really get like 10 fights to roll into it, and then build up his confidence. He had to start mixing it against at least half-decent kids over longer rounds, who’d been there before. So he’s done well. As an amateur he was quite easy to hit, but he’s very good coming forward and he’s very powerful; quite relentless. That still stands. He’s been one of the most consistent people. We’re yet to see him in a proper, proper hard pro fight. I know that it’s very hard to keep a pace when you start running 100mph from the first round over an actual 12-round fight. Let’s be real – he’s not fought anyone of any real volition coming back, and he’s still been getting caught with clean shots. We’ve seen his legs buckle, maybe once; maybe twice. He’s where I’d have expected him to be. I don’t really think Rob’s done a fantastic job of making him much better. But when he’s been working with him for so long you wouldn’t really assume that he would? He’s done a good job. He’s got more knockouts than me already. But it’s styles and horses for courses. How many fights are you gonna give him? You gotta remember, because I’m 22 fights into my professional career, and he’s only seven, the clock’s against him. I’m 28. He’s older than I am.
BS: You joined your brother Charlie’s new trainer Stephen Smith in the corner for his victory over Georges Ory…
They’ve got a good partnership. They’re both at places in their careers where they’re perfect for each other. Steve’s really trying to prove himself. He was a great fighter; maybe he has that bee in the bonnet of never getting the world title over the line but getting ever so close. He’s now working with a fighter quite early on in his career that would have been a world champion; won titles; has had exposure; also, who people were excited about but maybe don’t rate as highly, for whatever reason. Really, he’s in a great place, Charlie, with Steve. They’ve both got a lot to prove and they want to prove it with each other, and that’s evident in the amount of effort that’s going back and forth in their relationship, and it’s good to see.
Where he put himself last out is probably one of the worst places any boxer in Britain could put themselves, and I made that very, very clear. Not only that, it completely stifled his career – the moment he started relying on and speaking to his younger brother again, I introduced him to his now-promoter. When you’re a bit more easy to work with because you haven’t got a leech lying and draining your energy, attached to you as your coach and manager, then your little brother can pull in a favour and get you signed to Channel 5.
BS: As Thomas Essomba’s manager, how do you feel about them fighting next?
Who do you think made it a possibility? I’ve been working on this for months. Me and a sponsor had to pay Thomas Essomba – him and his opponent, and the EBU lot coming over – to defend his title against his mandatory in Sheffield just to make this possible. That came out of my pocket. I don’t even take money off Thomas – I think he deserves that from me, because he was the first fighter to trust me to manage his career.
There’s no [conflict]. Boxing is never personal when it’s two people I know getting in a boxing ring. Do you know how many times it happens? I can name two or three times right now. Lyndon [Arthur], my best friend, versus Liam Cameron, who trains my son and is a friend and stablemate. This happens all the time when you’re involved in boxing like I am. I care about opportunities; I care about platforms. I care about my fighters getting the best for them and me delivering it, because that’s what they deserve off me. On Thomas’ side, Charlie was the best risk and best reward [balance] of all the other fights that are options. I’d rather Thomas fight Charlie Edwards than Andrew Cain in his next fight – that’s the truth. That’s why this fight’s happening.
Thomas has wanted to fight Charlie for years. Charlie turned down Thomas a couple of times – he pretends he never got offered him – my memory’s far better than his. Thomas had nothing to offer him. When he accepted to fight me, for the first couple of weeks he thought he was training to fight Charlie; he didn’t realise there was another Edwards brother; he didn’t realise I was a different person. I knew who Thomas was – I was a fan of his. But he didn’t realise I existed. He’s always wanted to fight my brother, because he’ll fight anyone – it’s not personal. In Britain he’s been someone people don’t look at twice on the street; no support; he’s had to be a journeyman. His skill is way, way above that. If I got to two Olympics, how different would my life have been? When he came to me to manage him, I couldn’t believe it – he’s the first person who’s ever done that, and it really started my management career, so for that I’ll always deliver Thomas the best fight possible. This fight is his best payday; biggest platform, and probably be his biggest fight. He’s walking into the headline Channel 5, defending his European title against a former world champion that just happens to be the brother of his challenger. It’s a massive moment for him. Why would my feelings of, “One of you might lose…” – every time two people go into the ring someone might lose. It’s not personal. Boxing means so much that it can never be personal. My relationship’s to boxing first. If two people should fight and are of a good level, the winner will go on and the loser can come back again. That’s boxing. It’s not about ego; protecting your “0” 30 times against bums and just beating up on people. That takes away from the sport. All I want is adding value. The reason we fall behind other sports is because we have to go months – years, sometimes – of a fight worth talking about in most people’s careers.
BS: How does your family feel about it?
My dad has always, always, always wanted me and my brother to fight, so him fighting Thomas – that fucking definitely means nothing to him. My dad’s been putting us in competition since we were eight years old, five years old; walking me into a room and proving that I can be better than my brother. My dad made us this way; why you see some spill outs, even if it’s sometimes serious, my dad made us this way. My dad wants me and him to fight, because he thinks – call him deluded; I would – that his boys are the best two boys that have ever come out of Britain. If anything, he thinks we’re the best fighters ever in boxing. He thinks the Klitschko brothers, believe it or not, ain’t shit on the Edwards brothers. That’s what my dad thinks. He loves it. He wants to see me and my brother fight. He’s the reason for all of this. He actually does – that’s not a joke.
Lucas Ketelle is a proud member of the Boxing Writers Association of America and author of “Inside The Ropes of Boxing” (available on Amazon). Contact him on X @LukieBoxing.